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XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas? (Read 2695 times)
Simon 3.2 Sov
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XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
28.08.2007 at 09:47:42
 
Hi folks, I could do with some help here, so any ideas appreciated  Smiley

I know it's a bad thing, but I left the car standing for a fortnight. Went to start it on Saturday morning, very damp morning, there was condensation under the bonnet skin.
It started - wahey! It did the usual, revs up to about 1000rpm. BUT - immediately after starting, the revs fell off and it died. I thought it was just one of those things, and I have heard old Jags don't like damp mornings - or 2 week lay-ups - so I just tried again.

I haven't been able to start it. The fuel pump at the back of the car comes on as usual for a couple of seconds when I switch ignition on. All the warning lights come on. The engine turns over and over, but won't fire. After a few seconds turning over, it will speed up and jolt as if it's firing occasionally, but it never starts running. There is no stink of fuel when I've been turning it over. It is in Park.

The battery got weak after a few goes, so I have tried with a booster attached in case the low current was causing a problem, but still no luck.

The last thing I did, a week ago, was fit new nearside headlights. Doubt it's related, but thought I'd mention it just in case!

I'm thinking it could be a relay, or failing that, something like the fuel pressure regulator? Or one of about 2000 sensors? Damp in the airflow sensor? I know these things can be hard to diagnose, but if you ever had the same problem or think you know what this might be (apart from a pain in the backside  Grin ) please speak up!!

Any help much appreciated lads. I've already had to endure the train from London to Portsmouth and back, and now it looks like I've got a date with the AA tonight....

Cheers

Simon
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1996 X300 3.2 Sovereign manual ...
 
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NEWXJ40S
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #1 - 28.08.2007 at 10:03:38
 
Hello there, first you need to see if its fuel or ignition. Fully charge the battery. Disconnect the king lead from the centre of the distributor (leave other end attached to coil) and using a plastic clothes peg (or similar insulating device) hold the king lead terminal 6 to 10mm from the cylinder block while someone cranks the engine. There should be a good bright spark which easily jumps a 10mm gap.
Post rsult of this test on forum.

Cheers
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1988 3.6 XJ40&&1992 3.2 XJ40&&Not actually a new member - been here some time under as XJ40s
 
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TWR_XJ40
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #2 - 28.08.2007 at 15:39:08
 
Could be the MAFS is wet. I had the same symptons when I got the car a little damp. Could just take it out and let it dry in a warm place.
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Jos
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #3 - 28.08.2007 at 16:20:39
 
possibly condensation in the ignition cap, coil tower, or spark plugs.

go through the following exercise and see if it helps: (no start when wet).

get an empty spray bottle. Fill it with water. Go to your car when the sun is shining and it's dry and hot out. Open the hood. Start the car. Now be careful here, I don't want you coming out of this with a few nubs where there once were fingers - stay away from belts and pulleys.
 
Set your spray bottle on STUN (you want a fine and directed spray, not a deluge here) and point it at the first spark plug you find. STUN!! Listen - - - did it start to misfire? Yes? Then that is the culprit. Replace the plug or wire or both. No? Then STUN the next plug - keep on until you find the bad guy. If nothing is found then direct the spray at the tower of the coil - STUN! Stall? Yes, replace the coil,. No? On to the distributor cap. STUN!
 
About here you will have run out of High Voltage things to STUN - If that did it then replace the distributor cap. 

hope it helps.
Jos
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Leo_Denmark
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #4 - 28.08.2007 at 16:53:17
 
I have had the same problem 4-5 times, normally after using water cleaning the engine bay and then not taking the car for a drive immidiately after....
When the engine ignites on some cylinders, but doesn't start, I have cured that by baking the plugs for 8-10 minutes at 200oC. Once I had to give the ignition leads and cover a few minutes at a lower temperature
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Leo Jensen, Denmark XJ 40 3.2 1992 - Citroën 2CV 1975
 
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PeterH
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #5 - 28.08.2007 at 17:03:41
 
When I bought my XJ40 Daimler I drove it about 200 miles home with just one little hicup but I finaly got it home.
Once at home it would not start anymore and it turned out to be the Crank Position Sensor who had given up, a new one and she was purring like a cat again.
Two days later and she would not start again and this time it was the Ignition Amplifier who was playing up.
I finaly managed to find a used one so now she starts every time just like a Jaguar should Wink
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Peter Hällström
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Rolys mk10
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #6 - 28.08.2007 at 17:40:42
 
heres my usual drivel.
Have you given leads etc. a good dose of WD40.

I must admit on fine days I go out open boot bonnet doors to air the cars. Smiley

as They don't get used much at the present time. Sad
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1994 xj81 majestic
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sockets
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #7 - 28.08.2007 at 18:23:54
 
Leo_Denmark wrote on 28.08.2007 at 16:53:17:
I have cured that by baking the plugs for 8-10 minutes at 200oC. Once I had to give the ignition leads and cover a few minutes at a lower temperature


This is like an episode of masterchef  Grin Grin
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Rolys mk10
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #8 - 28.08.2007 at 18:25:55
 
Quote:
Leo_Denmark wrote on 28.08.2007 at 16:53:17:
I have cured that by baking the plugs for 8-10 minutes at 200oC. Once I had to give the ignition leads and cover a few minutes at a lower temperature


This is like an episode of masterchef  Grin Grin

I just fry the electrodes on the gas hob myself.
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1994 xj81 majestic
1990 4 litre xj 40
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Agu_vrh5deo
Don't let someone become a priority in your life, when you're just an option in theirs'
 
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NEWXJ40S
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #9 - 29.08.2007 at 10:00:18
 
Simon, although you have not posted the result of the spark gap test yet, in the light of some posts that have been made I feel a few additional comments are appropriate. Quite a number of XJ40s suffer from ignition problems due to the accumulation of a number of factors and eventually one of these factors is the "straw that breaks the camels back". At this point one of these factors is corrected / repaired and the car runs again even though quite a number of things are not as they should be. An XJ40 ignition system in good condition produces such a high voltage the spark is like a minature bolt of lightening, it will fire a well worn / dirty plug through a poor HT lead. Because of this high voltage, tracking across the coil tower or arcing between the coil HT outlet and other coil terminals is very common if the coil tower is damp or dirty. Crank the engine in the dark and look for stray sparks on the coil tower and HT areas.
PeterH's post was interesting. The chances of a CPS and ignition amp failing within a short time of each other are very very remote. There is a fair chance that disturbing these components temporarily removed an underlaying problem. If there is a spark at all the CPS is almost certainly OK.
Cheers
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1988 3.6 XJ40&&1992 3.2 XJ40&&Not actually a new member - been here some time under as XJ40s
 
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Simon 3.2 Sov
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #10 - 29.08.2007 at 10:01:50
 
Thanks for all the ideas lads, much appreciated. Some of those sound delicious  Grin

I decided to call the AA in the end and let them do the diagnosing seeing as they've got the necessary gear and experience. Guess what? As soon as he got there, AA man said 'I bet it's flooded itself'. I didn't think that sounded likely, but sure enough - he cranked it, throttle open, for a minute or so and it fired! He took the coolant temp. sensor off while he did it, saying that would stop it injecting extra fuel for a cold start. He reckons flooding happens quite a lot to XJ6s, and there's not much I can do to prevent it. Has anybody else had this problem?

Anyway, I ran it for 20 minutes then went for a drive.... and when I braked to let somebody through, it cut out! I had to crank it loads to restart it, and then it was only happy idling. When I drove round the block, it was misfiring and sounding like an Imprezza, and I got fault code 14 - coolant temp. not in range. Anyway, I noticed a little square grommet had fallen out of the temp. sensor so I refitted it, the fault code went away and the car idled quite happily. I'll try it on a longer run tomorrow night. The car has been faultless since I got it in March, and I don't want to turn it into a bodged-up old smoker like my BMW was!

I'm just concerned now about secondary damage, such as the cat and o2 sensor. I have heard these can be damaged by misfiring, so I'll be expecting the 'AaaAARGGH, o2 sensor!!!!' fault code next  Grin

Peter - thanks mate, I may well change the crank sensor to be on the safe side.
Roly - yep, AA dude gave the connections a good spray, and found the coil lead wasn't on properly either - doh! The HT leads are a bit old, so I think I'll change them and maybe the rotor arm and dizzy cap.

Then I can casserole the old ones in some red wine and shallots....
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1996 X300 3.2 Sovereign manual ...
 
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NEWXJ40S
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #11 - 29.08.2007 at 10:10:19
 
Glad to see you are sorted. The flooding problem is well known, not just on Jags but also on a lot of EFI cars. Its one of the more common reasons for AA call outs. There have been quite a number of detail posts on this issue on this forum. Before you spend money on any components a worthwhile check is to measure the voltage between the ignition side of the coil and earth, It should not be more than 0.1V less than voltage between the battery terminals. If it is more than 0.1v less post the voltages and I can offer some suggestions of typical Jag faults. 
Cheers
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1988 3.6 XJ40&&1992 3.2 XJ40&&Not actually a new member - been here some time under as XJ40s
 
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Simon 3.2 Sov
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #12 - 29.08.2007 at 10:12:56
 
Hello NewXJ40S, looks like we were posting at the same time!

Very interesting. What you're saying is that the system is very strong, and can fall into a poor state of repair - then one thing fails and gets replaced, only for the next item to fail and also be replaced soon after. Good point, I think a change of leads, cap and rotor could be a good move.

I know it sounds a bit daft, but I've never done it before. What's the best way to go about it, any tips or tricks? Can anybody recommend a supplier? Also the crank sensor looks to held on by a bolt above the pulley, is it a simple plug&play job? Any advice welcome - be as patronising as you want!
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1996 X300 3.2 Sovereign manual ...
 
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JagFab
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #13 - 29.08.2007 at 11:09:08
 
Quote:
Also the crank sensor looks to held on by a bolt above the pulley, is it a simple plug&play job?
Easy-peasy. You need an Allen key. Unscrew old, thread in new (carefully, as usual, to avoid stripping thread), tighten down. The hardest part will likely be parting the barrel connector!
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JagFab
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Rolys mk10
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Re: XJ40 died and won't start! Ideas?
Reply #14 - 29.08.2007 at 12:24:32
 
So the AA man saved the day ,cured and recaused the problem Cool

Was he from the Automobile Assoc. Or the other group. Smiley Smiley
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1994 xj81 majestic
1990 4 litre xj 40
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Agu_vrh5deo
Don't let someone become a priority in your life, when you're just an option in theirs'
 
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