THE ONLINE HOME OF THE BEST-SELLING INDEPENDENT JAGUAR CAR MAGAZINE
XJ Restorations


New this month on jaguar-world.com...

Subscribe to Jaguar World Monthly
Subscribe by phone, by post or online
here ...
Jaguar World Monthly magazine logo
Buy the latest issue of JWM - post FREE!
Jaguar World Monthly Homepage The Magazine Subscribe Back Issues & Reprints Accessories Posters Books
Auctions Club Racing Events Diary Jaguar Tours XK60 Classified Ads Wallpapers Contact Next month Links
 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
 
 
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
Pages: 1 2 
Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous? (Read 477 times)
multivalve
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67
Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
01.02.2010 at 12:47:26
 
Isn't it getting a bit stupid where you post topics of general interest on a motoring forum, and each and every time, it gets flamed off by some troll or a "moderator" removes it?

I would have thought discussing head flow of the Xj40 engine would be very interesting...but NO on this forum it's forbidden.
TBH, I have so much work it's coming out of my ears, but if anyone from the Jag world approached me for a head now, I would turn it down.
I'm now so pissed off, I would NEVER entertain doing work on Jaguar engines in the UK again.

Luckily my Baltic and Finnish friends respect what I do.

The atmosphere here just STINKS.

Sorry if you don't like what I say, but now I really had an A.. full.....
You people are your own worst enemies.
Do you realise the kind of attitude you are putting across about your marque??
Basically stinking cronyism and happier to do business with rip-off merchants rather than people who actually care...AND
Do a good job.
Some of us work for our livings...including on Jaguars.

How about a touch of respect eh??  Roll Eyes Huh
Angry
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sockets
Senior Member
****
Offline


Manchester, England

Posts: 2240
Manchester
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #1 - 01.02.2010 at 14:36:15
 
I don't understand all these deleted posts, as far as I could see Multivalve started a perfectly reasonable thread and then it was deleted yet again, can't understand it!
Back to top
 

2002 X-Type 3.0 Sport auto, Titanium Grey, Dove Grey Leather, 72K miles ...
 
IP Logged
 
covkid
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 555
England
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #2 - 01.02.2010 at 15:09:43
 
Sockets wrote on 01.02.2010 at 14:36:15:
I don't understand all these deleted posts, as far as I could see Multivalve started a perfectly reasonable thread and then it was deleted yet again, can't understand it!


I have wondered about that too.
Surely if a post is objectionable because it contravenes some of the forum rules, whether it be abusive / insulting or deemed to be a forbidden although pretty obvious sales pitch and the poster repeatedly uses such devices in his posts, rather than simply deleting the offending posts, the originator should be permanently barred from the forum on the 'three strikes and you are out' principle.  Undecided

I leave others to judge whether that applies in this case.  Roll Eyes
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
multivalve
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #3 - 01.02.2010 at 18:04:14
 
Quote:
I have wondered about that too.
Surely if a post is objectionable because it contravenes some of the forum rules, whether it be abusive / insulting or deemed to be a forbidden although pretty obvious sales pitch


I don't agree.
Being as no-one even volunteered to identify the head (an IMP) it just shows the attitude here.
Am I here to sell IMP heads??
Decent head specialists don't grow on trees any more, they're either dead or retiring these days.

Out of technical interest the IMP head resembles the Jag XJ40 head in astonishing ways.....

FYI:- Andy Chesman also started in motorsport by modifying Imp heads.....

This is a Chesman head I'm doing atm ...flow figures below

I don't suppose any of you care about Chesman and his racing Jag stuff...  Angry
Back to top
« Last Edit: 01.02.2010 at 21:35:50 by multivalve »  
 
IP Logged
 
covkid
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 555
England
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #4 - 01.02.2010 at 19:00:16
 
That last post illustrates my point beautifully!

Thanks Multimouth!  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
multivalve
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #5 - 01.02.2010 at 21:26:17
 
covkid wrote on 01.02.2010 at 19:00:16:
That last post illustrates my point beautifully!
 


So if Mr Coventry can do better...come and prove it...

Chesman's head before and after modification...

Prove to me you can get 128bhp from 998cc and we'll talk about it... Sad


Back to top
 

ac2.gif (88 KB | 3 )
ac2.gif
 
IP Logged
 
covkid
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 555
England
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #6 - 01.02.2010 at 22:46:31
 
multivalve wrote on 01.02.2010 at 21:26:17:
covkid wrote on 01.02.2010 at 19:00:16:
That last post illustrates my point beautifully!
 



Prove to me you can get 128bhp from 998cc and we'll talk about it... Sad




Thought so - you are obviously posting in the wrong forum - try this one :-
http://www.theimpclub.co.uk/

or perhaps you can play with your toy car with these people :-
http://www.rodwellmotorsport.com/index.htm

Meanwhile, we grown ups will continue to enjoy our big boys toys away from your infantile 'my head is better than your head' ramblings.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
multivalve
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #7 - 02.02.2010 at 01:05:39
 
I don't know why I bother.
You don't get it do you??

What is eating you?
Jealousy, stupidity, ignorance?

You can choose to remain stupid, but it's your choice.

Working on many different engines you can learn useful things.
Chesman made modified imps for a living, that made him one of the best V12 Jaguar engine specialists around.
(those engines have almost identical problems)

The Imp engine was a Coventry climax (or you forgot your Coventry sense of pride now??)
It was a slant 4.
Your Jaguar AJ6 is a slant 6.

Now look at both.
They are very similar, in fact that Jaguar engine had very similar design teams.
Also unsuprisingly you can get 30% more flow from a Jaguar head also.

Of course you can carry on being stupid and ignorant.

It's your choice after all, but intelligent people never stop learning..

Go on, you KNOW you can do it, just once.... Kiss

LEARN SOMETHING!
(instead of prancing arrogantly around in your Jaguar blinkered world)

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Leo_Denmark
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 267
Middelfart Denmark.
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #8 - 02.02.2010 at 07:44:17
 
I believe you know a lot about engine tuning, and I am interested.

The problem is that you have a funny way of wanting to tease us and afterwards responds very aggresively to any response.
I read the replies #2 and 3 in this thread as support to you, but you responds very harshly to them.

I would like you to explain what you mean is the problem with the XJ40 (or Imp or Coventry...) head and how you manage to get more power from the engine.
Do your modifications also improve smoothness and economy ?

I do not find the AJ6 engine sophisticated, at least not the one mounted in my car. It is strong and stable, but not efficient.
It does seem to need a very rich mixture to handle cold start, it is no matter what I do not possible to go more than 6 km on the first liter of fuel, and it is easily gone after 4 km.
Back to top
 

Leo Jensen, Denmark XJ 40 3.2 1992 - Citroën 2CV 1975
 
IP Logged
 
multivalve
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #9 - 02.02.2010 at 08:28:48
 
There are 2, AJ6 heads, with some minor variations introduced down the line.
They both have different problems.

The early head has 2 cam follower variants.
Small and large. The larger cam follower is used in all later heads.
The X300 introduced the "AJ16" head which is supposed to be a major improvement.

In all my tests, the AJ6 head performed far better than the AJ16 head, as the ports have been made far too large on the AJ16.
This sounds counter intuitive, because popular hearsay and logic says the later head is better.
This is not so.

In most of my work on cylinder head modification it's a primary rule to keep ports as small as possible in order to keep the port velocity up.
On the AJ6 head I was able to get a flow improvement of up to 30% doing modifications to the ports and seats alone, and this was especially noticeable when done to the EXHAUST tract.

Again the primary response to all my posts on this forum has been trashy, negative, childish, and mostly downright rude, as well as contradicting all my work showing there are major improvements that can be made to 4V engines such as the Jaguar.

That REALLY "gets up my nose", as you can see.

Now back to the subject:-
On an early XJS I modified in Strasbourg, the engine had such a major improvement to driveability that the 0-100km/h time was reduced by more than 1.3secs on an otherwise standard engine (which had in fact done more than 220,000kms), such are these units robust.
There are major improvements made to the fuel consumption doing this, and no down sides. This kind of work removes the characteristic kink in the torque curve, for which the AJ6 is well known and gives a major improvement in torque from 1500-3500rpm.

I must admit I was very suprised by such a result as I expected to see a large increase in power from 4500rpm on.
This doesn't happen because the other engine ancilliaries have been poorly designed, eg. the inlet tract being made TOO LONG and the exhaust manifold TOO SHORT.
This was a poor compromise adopted by the factory to get round production spread and tolerances.

There are also severe mismatches between the inlet manifold and head, which result in the symptoms you describe....poor fuel economy when cold and poor torque curve.

I could say more, but I have no doubt someone will come along and edit this post as well. Undecided

I hope this answers your question.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Leo_Denmark
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 267
Middelfart Denmark.
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #10 - 02.02.2010 at 08:52:25
 
No, I don't think this thread will be removed as it now starts to contain interesting information ;o)

Reducing sections to increase speed sounds perfectly sane to me, I actually have a set of heads for my 2CV 'in work' with the same kind of modification made together with a set of 30mm carburettors.

What do you use to fill up excess volume ? Welding is not really possible inside the tracts. I have used some epoxy filler and hopes it will stay put.

I used to work with 2-stroke kart engines, that is 100CC and direct drive, so there we aimed for mismatching of the tune for different systems, as a lot of power in a narrow band was of no use, we needed a powerband from 6-20.000 RPM and even being able to roll rather slowly in lineup.
For temporary experiments with shapes of inlet and transfers I could use polyureathan or epoxy, but in the exhaust I had to weld if I wanted to do more than a few dyno-runs...
Back to top
 

Leo Jensen, Denmark XJ 40 3.2 1992 - Citroën 2CV 1975
 
IP Logged
 
XJ40S
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 1388
Sheffield
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #11 - 02.02.2010 at 12:22:36
 
"Decent head specialists don't grow on trees any more, they're either dead or retiring these days".
In many ways head specialists are not needed anymore, manufactuers get their engines pretty well spot on for their intended use, and if you want more power just fit a turbo or supercharger which is the choice of Jaguar and many other manufacturers. As for inlet tract velocity that is a bit of a non starter, inlet tract turbulence and resonance are far more important since the peak velocity is only achieved for a few degrees in every 720 degrees of the 4 stroke cycle.
Cheers
Back to top
 

1993 3.2 xj6
 
IP Logged
 
multivalve
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #12 - 02.02.2010 at 15:11:13
 
XJ40S wrote on 02.02.2010 at 12:22:36:
"Decent head specialists don't grow on trees any more, they're either dead or retiring these days".
In many ways head specialists are not needed anymore, manufactuers get their engines pretty well spot on for their intended use, and if you want more power just fit a turbo or supercharger which is the choice of Jaguar and many other manufacturers.s


I'm afraid this is just total nonsense.

Luckily, most manufacturers screw up their designs pretty well, otherwise I would have no work.
As for the turbo and supercharger options cited they are just a pure admission of failure, and almost invariably result in higher fuel consumption.

I'm afraid making blanket comments like that, you had better know what you are talking about.

Ford make some excellent naturally aspirated engines, unfortunately the Jaguar V8 is not one of them.

I keep my opinion, the XJ40 engine was the best power unit Jaguar ever made in its history, a great pity they screwed up so many of the good bits along the way......
Heck,- don't forget it was designed when part of BRITISH LEYLAND, so it's not all their fault.  Wink
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
richard_moss
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 786
Wolverhampton
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #13 - 02.02.2010 at 22:10:30
 
I think that there's a difference between a genuine discussing about engine tuning and Multivalve's attempts to sell us his wares.

Add to that a generally aggressive, insulting and disruptive manner and you have a right royal pain in the arse.
Back to top
 

Obsessive on a steep learning curve. 1990 4L Sovereign with LPG & 2000 Alfa Romeo 166 3l V6 (in UAE) ...
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Brian
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 353
east anglia
Gender: male
Re: Isn't this getting kinda ridiculous?
Reply #14 - 02.02.2010 at 23:00:28
 
Hi Richard, how's the 4ltr going?, haven't heard much from you lately.
   Brian
Back to top
 

1993 3.2 XJ40&&1989 Maserati 430 Bi-Turbo 1997 3.2 X300 executive
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 

Other Kelsey Publications...
AUTOMOTIVE TITLES:   4x4, Car Mechanics, Classic Car Buyer, Classic Car Mart, Classic Car World, Classic Military Vehicle, Classic Van & Pick-up, Classic & Vintage Commercials, Custom Car, Jaguar World, Land Rover World, MG Enthusiast, Modern Mini, Total BMW, Triumph World, Volkswagen Golf+
ASSOCIATED WEBSITES:   Car & Classic, Great-Cars

 Content Copyright © 2010-2012 Kelsey Publishing Group