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XJ Saloons - the XJ40 and X300 models
› High Idle 95 xjr
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High Idle 95 xjr (Read 2160 times)
mallard63
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High Idle 95 xjr
22.05.2011 at 19:27:51
Hello to all and first time posting!
I need some advice as to what's causing the problem on my carand i think i may be there(ish)
For about a year now I have been trying to narrow down the cause of a high idle. When starting up, the idle will go up to about 1400rpm. If i then drive off, I am more than likely to get the trans warning light come on after about a mile or so and when slowing down to enter a junction or similar. Vehicle will either go into lumpy gear change mode or restricted into say 2nd gear. No way of telling which until it happens. I will then turn the engine off the on again,and this warning will never reappear,no matter how long the journey.
Also the engine will appear to suffer from momentary loss of power,as if no fuel is getting to it for a split second.However,once the engine is up to normal operating temp,it will behave perfectly.
However, if I wait for a few minutes from first starting the car until the revs have settled at about 1000-1200 then neither of the above will happen.
I hope you are not too bored yet as this is where i think i have gotten somewhere at last.
If I start the car with the outside air temp at 25c or about that, the car appears to idle correctly and will fall to 750rpm quite normally and never suffer the aforementioned problems whatsoever. It will drive all day long and for 100's of miles and still be running correctly at journeys end.
But when air temp is colder,especially in the winter months,it really never settles properly most of the time.
I have also noticed the cooling fan appears to be running all the time and i am sure this was never the case before.
It has been looked at briefly by Jag but they said sticking accelerator cable. I need to point them in the correct direction before they start changing unrelated parts!
If Air temp seems to play a part in this, can someone advise what the cause may be?
The End. Sorry for a long post but otherwise the car is immac. and this is bugging me somewhat.
Thanks
Mark.
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Straight6DOHC
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #1 -
22.05.2011 at 22:52:50
Hello and welcome.
You need to get a diagnostic done - when the car is cold and the high idle will occur. The diagnostic will reveal if any of the sensors are acting up (this will include several temp sensors) and any codes stored. I think this should be your first port of call and should be the cheapest option in the long term. It's what any garage should do before anything else IMHO.
There is no guarantee the diagnostic will show the way to the problem though. Perhaps a local Jag indy could diagnose the problem.
Fans running constantly is normal.
If you lived near me I'd do the diagnostic just for practice sake, however, with ambient temps of 25C you'll be absolutely nowhere closeby.
I'm sure others could suggest a few causes of high idle at cold but as you have said, you don't want to be throwing expensive parts at the car without being absolutely sure.
Off the top of my head, dirty throttle body, coolant temp sensor, MAF sensor, idle control valve might be some culprits.
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1995 XJR6. Black.
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2jagsDoug
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #2 -
22.05.2011 at 23:07:20
I've done battle with high idle as well....although it was never a temperature sensitive thing in my case. Most recently the cure was adjusting the throttle cables. Weak return springs can play a part in the high idle bugaboo as well.
You're description of the symptoms has me wondering if perhaps you have a couple different problems. Just speculation on my part, mind you.
Cheers
DD
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Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1995 XJR
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blacknhands
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #3 -
23.05.2011 at 11:59:46
have you checked the stepper motor for function. this controls a valve to correct idle speed for a number of factors.eg engine temp, gear engaged air con on/off,power steering load. it is worth trying because you can check it without the fairies boxes good luck
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mallard63
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #4 -
23.05.2011 at 14:41:49
Thank you all thus far for your comments. I think i will take to Guy Salmon at Crawley unless anyone knows of a indy in East Sussex who knows their stuff. Will let you know the outcome.
PS what sort of cost involved in getting the tensioners replaced as mine starting to become noisy?
Cheers
Mark
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Mick Gannon
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #5 -
23.05.2011 at 17:52:46
high idle been covered before many times do a search on the forum as said throttle body, ISCV valve, temp sensor 2 wire not single, injector seals, manifold gasket and throttle body joint, there is no gasket some like me using Hylomar 102 to seal others say greese some don't use any thing and try a metal to metal seal that does not work, being an R version getting to the throttle body is not easy, do the basics first strip, clean assemble and ensure all joints are sealed and hoses are not split, you may find that cures the high idle, being temp related do temp sensor first there is only 1 that controls idle speed.
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XJ40S
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #6 -
24.05.2011 at 13:45:17
Don't rule out something simple like dirt on the throttle cable, the mechnism where it attaches to the throttle body or the cruise control slider.
Cheers
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1993 3.2 xj6
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Mick Gannon
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #7 -
25.05.2011 at 07:04:18
XJ40S wrote
on 24.05.2011 at 13:45:17:
Don't rule out something simple like dirt on the throttle cable, the mechnism where it attaches to the throttle body or the cruise control slider.
Cheers
Good point but covered in my last post "do the basics first strip, clean assemble" but worth the comment, as not everybody considers the cable to cause faults.
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XJ40S
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #8 -
25.05.2011 at 12:15:38
I am not familir with XJR engine mangement but from your original post it seems to be temperature related.
Your car will have a coolant temp sensor
I think it will have an IATS (Intake air temperature sensor)
Your air flow meter will be hot wire ie temperature sensitive.
There may be an additional IATS sensor between supercharger and manifold.
All these sensors rely on resistance / voltage so if input voltage is wrong they can give wrong outputs.
You battery will give lower voltage in cold weather or just after starting, Second start with hot engine will not have such voltage drop. Voltage drop occurs for a while after start as battery recovers from starting current. Low battery volts could also be causing transmission fault indications.
My advice would be to check all connections to above components, your ECU earth and monitor battery voltage with an accurate meter.
If that fails find a good specialist with engine management diagnostics.
Cheers
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1993 3.2 xj6
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mallard63
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #9 -
25.05.2011 at 16:50:06
Thank you all. The sensors are going to be the first port of call along with the cables(again). They were replaced as a poss cause but no effect.
Will advise of outcome.
Mark
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ng4xjs
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #10 -
26.05.2011 at 13:00:05
I think I have the opposite. My engine (AJ16). runs smoothly and fine and is totally responsive, most of the time. Over the last couple of days it has stalled when drawing up to stop. I’m thinking crankshaft position sensor but any other ideas most definitely welcomed.
Nick
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1994 4.0L XJS British Racing Green &2002 2.5L X Type
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XJ40S
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #11 -
26.05.2011 at 22:33:06
My 88 3.6 suffered those symptoms in 1994 coming out of a car park. Would start and so long as you kept revs up it was OK, but soon as you let revs drop it would stall. Failed completely 24 miles later. I was between a friends wedding reception at the time so a bit well dressed to delve in. Local Jag garage collected car within an hour and fitted a new crank position sensor and its run fine ever since. I always wonder if it was a faulty sensor or just poor connections that changing the sensor cured.
Cheers
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1993 3.2 xj6
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mallard63
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #12 -
21.01.2012 at 12:58:22
Just to update after a lengthy trial and error period. The fault appears to have been a dying TPS which 4 weeks ago left me with a car that would not idle below 1100rpm.
I was getting the gears holding for too long before changing, and an overfuelling that was causing the car to momentarily have no power whatsoever. Took the car to XJ Restorations in Eastbourne under its own steam(it never did actually breakdown) and after having the diagnostics done by a professional who could read and interpret what was the problem, a new TPS was fitted and that was calibrated to the ECU and IACV. Now I do not get even the tiny hesitation I used to get when setting off with a cold engine and accelerating to about 30mph. Impressed so far and to finally have the car running properly.
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Rads
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #13 -
27.04.2012 at 10:33:47
Thanks for posting the follow-up; it is always good to find out how faults are ultimately resolved. My car also suffers high idle but I think it is mechanical ie sticking throttle. I have got a new throttle spring; these were uprated, but the process of replacing it on the supercherged car looks complex!
After the insulation fell off the wires to the traction control throttle servo I dismantled same while replacing wires and found the mechanism to be dirty, slighly rusty and sticking. This may have been affecting the throttle closure. Haven't started it yet so cannot verify any change.
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95 XJR6
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2jagsDoug
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #14 -
27.04.2012 at 13:22:37
mallard63 wrote
on 21.01.2012 at 12:58:22:
Just to update after a lengthy trial and error period. The fault appears to have been a dying TPS which 4 weeks ago left me with a car that would not idle below 1100rpm.
I was getting the gears holding for too long before changing, and an overfuelling that was causing the car to momentarily have no power whatsoever. Took the car to XJ Restorations in Eastbourne under its own steam(it never did actually breakdown) and after having the diagnostics done by a professional who could read and interpret what was the problem, a new TPS was fitted and that was calibrated to the ECU and IACV. Now I do not get even the tiny hesitation I used to get when setting off with a cold engine and accelerating to about 30mph. Impressed so far and to finally have the car running properly.
Glad to hear it's all sorted. The holding-gears-too-long thing is generally a clue that the TPS is suspect, or so I understand.
Cheers
DD
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Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1995 XJR
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2jagsDoug
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #15 -
27.04.2012 at 13:44:09
Rads wrote
on 27.04.2012 at 10:33:47:
Thanks for posting the follow-up; it is always good to find out how faults are ultimately resolved. My car also suffers high idle but I think it is mechanical ie sticking throttle. I have got a new throttle spring; these were uprated, but the process of replacing it on the supercherged car looks complex!
There are two return springs, a linear spring on the external linkage and a coiled spring on the throttle body itself. As i recall Jaguar uprated both of them.
The linear spring can be removed fairly easily from below...probably easier to wait until your next oil change as removing the oil filter gives a bit more room to work.
It can also be reached from above but you'd probably have to remove the cast elbow from the intercooler/inlet manifold.
The one on the throttle body itself requires that the t/b be partially diassembled, I think....which means removal from the car, of course. No easy task.
Quote:
After the insulation fell off the wires to the traction control throttle servo I dismantled same while replacing wires and found the mechanism to be dirty, slighly rusty and sticking. This may have been affecting the throttle closure. Haven't started it yet so cannot verify any change.
Good to know. It gives me a reason to take a closer look at mine.
I'm not having an idle problem at the moment but I do think I have traction control problem.
Any tips on dismantling/reassembling the unit? Or is it all slef-evident once you dig in?
Cheers and thanks
DD
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Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1995 XJR
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Rads
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #16 -
03.05.2012 at 08:06:36
2jagsDoug wrote
on 27.04.2012 at 13:44:09:
Rads wrote
on 27.04.2012 at 10:33:47:
Thanks for posting the follow-up; it is always good to find out how faults are ultimately resolved. My car also suffers high idle but I think it is mechanical ie sticking throttle. I have got a new throttle spring; these were uprated, but the process of replacing it on the supercherged car looks complex!
There are two return springs, a linear spring on the external linkage and a coiled spring on the throttle body itself. As i recall Jaguar uprated both of them.
The linear spring can be removed fairly easily from below...probably easier to wait until your next oil change as removing the oil filter gives a bit more room to work.
It can also be reached from above but you'd probably have to remove the cast elbow from the intercooler/inlet manifold.
The one on the throttle body itself requires that the t/b be partially diassembled, I think....which means removal from the car, of course. No easy task.
Quote:
After the insulation fell off the wires to the traction control throttle servo I dismantled same while replacing wires and found the mechanism to be dirty, slighly rusty and sticking. This may have been affecting the throttle closure. Haven't started it yet so cannot verify any change.
Good to know. It gives me a reason to take a closer look at mine.
I'm not having an idle problem at the moment but I do think I have traction control problem.
Any tips on dismantling/reassembling the unit? Or is it all slef-evident once you dig in?
Cheers and thanks
DD
The tc throttle valve actuator is not a complicated thing but if you disassemble it I would recommend that you mark the position of the position feedback pot on top so you can put it back in the same position, and the lower gear is spring loaded with a clock-type spring so make a note how much it unwinds when you lift off the quadrant gear (so you know how much to pre-load it when you reassemble). Also be careful when you lift the lower gear as that clock spring will want to escape! The motor is staked together (I think that's the term) rather than having screws so I did not try to dasassemble that, just sleeved the wires.
Rads
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95 XJR6
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2jagsDoug
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Re: High Idle 95 xjr
Reply #17 -
03.05.2012 at 14:18:36
Thanks for the advice. I'll add the project to my "to do" list
Cheers
DD
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Doug Dwyer
Longview, Washington USA
1995 XJR
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