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Curious misfire (Read 1918 times)
covkid
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #15 - 07.04.2012 at 21:18:14
 
XJ40S wrote on 07.04.2012 at 20:50:05:
My source for the ignition timing (and who advised cutting top off cap) was a gentleman who lectures round Europe on technical vehicle subjects.


Well, let's keep it simple. Just ask that source WHY he thinks that cutting off the top of a distributor cap on an AJ6 engine helps in any way in determining the correct alignment of the rotor to a plug lead pick-up.

What does he hope to see which he cannot see with the cap off and the rotor arm aligned with a scribed mark on the distributor body in line with the plug lead pick-up.

I think he is pulling your leg!  Grin Grin Grin Grin
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XJ40S
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #16 - 08.04.2012 at 19:39:01
 
Look back at #5 for an answer.
The suggestion of cutting away a disributor cap came during a phone conversation of approximately 40 minutes. It was certainly not a leg pull.
Cheers
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1993 3.2 xj6
 
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covkid
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #17 - 09.04.2012 at 08:26:53
 
XJ40S wrote on 08.04.2012 at 19:39:01:
Look back at #5 for an answer.
The suggestion of cutting away a disributor cap came during a phone conversation of approximately 40 minutes. It was certainly not a leg pull.
Cheers


As well as  'selling' you a totally irrelevant and unnecessary procedure for setting the distributor rotor arm alignment on an AJ6 engine, I bet he gave you a cracking deal on the Forth Bridge or the Eiffel tower!   Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Leo_Denmark
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #18 - 09.04.2012 at 13:17:10
 
XJ40S wrote on 04.04.2012 at 21:48:26:
My wife was driving my 88 3.6 on Monday when it broke down. It stalled then started the stalled again. This was on LPG. She could not start it on petrol however when I got there it started and ran OK on petrol, perhaps with occasional slight hesitatation. Every time it was switched back to LPG after a short while it began to hesitate and misfire.
Went through all the LPG system today and with possible exception of slightly "aging" filter all seemed fine. Filter would not be the cause because when the car was reved the misfire stopped or became less. There was exhaust smoke when throttle was blipped on petrol but not on LPG. Compression check revealed all was fine although No 6 was slightly down compared o others (decided to do vacuum test and check valve clearances later). No 1 plug black , others too pale. I then decided to have a look into distributor - knowing LPG puts more stress on ignition system. Upon checking the rotor arm the first 60 to 65 % of the brass was bright and pitted indicating sparks, the rest was dull suggesting it was not conducting sparks. I advanced the distributor body by nearly the number of degrees of the dull patch. Misfire completely cured and the car more responsive on LPG and petrol.
Just shows the importance of having the rotor arm correctly aligned with the ignition lead pick ups as mentioned on another post recently.
Cheers


Hi XJ40S and Covkid

Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but I have now tried to do what XJ40S described in his first post:
First I looked at my rotor arm. In this case the one I removed 2 weeks ago, the new one is still too new to show any pattern.

...

It looks like XJ40S' rotor arm, just worse.

Next step: Cleaning, marking up the current position and thinking to figure out which way to rotate. That didn't take too long...

...

Then loosen the screw using a 8mm spanner and rotate it some degrees. I guess I moved it ca. 6mm. You can actually see the old washer position on the picture below.

...

Finally. Start the engine. Yes it started.
Then a test ride. Yes it works.
Then some thrashing, and YES IT WORKS  Cheesy

It runs smoother at normal speeds, where I have always had some roughness, a bit V8-ish.
It goes through the 4000-5000 RPM strong and without any hesitation and shifts up at 5800 RPM at kickdown.

I should have done this a long time ago. You should also do it right away...  Cool

Thanks to XJ40S for bringing the subject up again with a simple description of what to do.
I have now added the photos to help dummies like myself.
And it can surely be done w/o cutting the top of caps, finding TDC of cylinder no. 1 or marking anything up Cheesy Wink
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Leo Jensen, Denmark XJ 40 3.2 1992 - Citroën 2CV 1975
 
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covkid
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #19 - 09.04.2012 at 14:11:44
 
Leo_Denmark wrote on 09.04.2012 at 13:17:10:
Finally. Start the engine. Yes it started.
Then a test ride. Yes it works.
Then some thrashing, and YES IT WORKS  Cheesy

It runs smoother at normal speeds, where I have always had some roughness, a bit V8-ish.
It goes through the 4000-5000 RPM strong and without any hesitation and shifts up at 5800 RPM at kickdown.

I should have done this a long time ago. You should also do it right away...  Cool

And it can surely be done w/o cutting the top of caps, finding TDC of cylinder no. 1 or marking anything up Cheesy Wink


Leo,

What you describe is common practice if your motor struggles to rev above 2 or 3 thousand RPM or is otherwise running a little lumpy. It indicates that the rotor arm was not correctly aligned in the first place and judicious adjustment of the distributor body within the range permissible by the slot in that fixing hole is a good way of determining if the rotor alignment is at fault.

On my car, I can turn that distributor body through the full arc of that slot and the engine will still run OK but at one extreme it starts to sound sluggish at higher RPM so returning it to its central position in the slot and it runs and revs perfectly because that is how I set up the rotor arm in relation to TDC #1 cylinder when I re-fitted the distributor - a simple scribe mark on the body to indicate the position of the plug lead pick-up for #1 cylinder.

As you say, no need for cut-off distributor caps or any other nonsense.  Wink
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Rolys mk10
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BI-POLAR gone "tits up"

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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #20 - 09.04.2012 at 16:04:52
 
Talking of nonsense.. we have had plastic rads etc on cars.. so why not a clear plastic/perspex dizzy cap....
















A perspex see thru engine would be good too




















Then we would get posts like  " my engine had a melt down at high speed on the M25" Wink Wink
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0f_1.jpg (32 KB | )
0f_1.jpg

1994 xj81 majestic
1990 4 litre xj 40
mk10 3.8 man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Agu_vrh5deo
Don't let someone become a priority in your life, when you're just an option in theirs'
 
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Leo_Denmark
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #21 - 09.04.2012 at 16:23:18
 
Roly, now we are getting slightly OT, but what you mean is something like this ?

...

...

...
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Leo Jensen, Denmark XJ 40 3.2 1992 - Citroën 2CV 1975
 
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covkid
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #22 - 09.04.2012 at 16:26:14
 
Leo_Denmark wrote on 09.04.2012 at 16:23:18:
Roly, now we are getting slightly OT, but what you mean is something like this ?



Or these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1V8mZ96824&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcd5d1bNDxU

http://www.hobbysurplus.com/enginemodels.asp

XJ40S will buy it!  Grin
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XJ40S
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Re: Curious misfire
Reply #23 - 17.04.2012 at 12:20:52
 
Ho Ho Ho - I won't be the first person who has been mocked for suggesting something others can't grasp the significance or usefullness of, for example, the uproar when someone suggested the Earth was round when most thought it flat Grin. Or the air ministry & RAF when they rejected Frank's jet engine Grin.
I am not going to go into all the details because I don't want to write a massive post.
The nominal ID of the HT pick ups in a distributor cap is 76mm. In practice it tends to be larger as the pick ups erode and effectively larger still due to the insulating deposit.
The nominal swept Dia of the rotor arm is 75mm (37.5 Rad) with a cord length of 16mm but the are Lucas arms on the market that have a Rad of only 36.2 and a cord length of 15mm. That means there is a gap between rotor arm and pick up of at least 1.3mm 9much greater than plug gap) and that is before wear and eccentricity is taken into account. Looking at the rotor arm compared to the notch in the distributor to check distributor position can result in parallax error because the are a long way apart (a cut away cap avoids this). Now suppose an engine has an intermittent misfire or backfire on one cylinder (part of 40 minute discussion referred to in previous post), this wears and can distort the distributor drive and change the relative position of pick up and rotor for that cylinder only. This would not be detected by the scribing a line at No 1 cylinder method but would be seen using a cut away cap and checking each cylinder.
An engine may continue to run and apparently quite well with an excessive rotor to pick up gap but a Jag ignition system can produce over 100kV (if rotor gap excesive) and in time this will damage the ignition amplifier and ECU.
Putting it simply, cutting the top of and old (or new at only about £10) and checking your distributor alignment, rotor arm gap etc may well save you a lot of time and money long term and save fuel in between.
Cheers

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1993 3.2 xj6
 
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